We Need Each Other with Dr. Charles Mushiga
We were so honored and privileged to have Dr. Charles Mushiga on the podcast to talk about isolation and connection. Pastor Charles is the founder of Africa New Life and if you have been around the IF:Gathering family, you’ve heard of Pastor Charles.
I’ve known Pastor Charles for many years. Him and his family actually lived with us for about a week, and it was the best week of my children’s lives! He has an amazing story that begins in Uganda and eventually led him to Rwanda. Pastor Charles was raised in Uganda to a family of Rwandans who were refugees from the war in Rwanda. In 1994, when the genocide in Rwanda ended, Pastor Charles went back home. It was a completely unthinkable experience as he saw his destroyed country, and much of the people in his country had died. Nearly a million people were killed in just 90 days of genocide. He met Jesus at 17, and his life has never been the same! Despite the destruction, darkness, and loss Pastor Charles has seen and experienced, he is one of the most joyful men I’ve ever met. He is an incredible visionary who has started incredible ministries in Rwanda that have touched thousands upon thousands of people. He is full of hope. He is full of joy. I wanted to talk to Pastor Charles about connectivity and relationships because of the restoration he’s seen take place in his country, and the way Rwanda’s culture is so community-focused.
I want to ask you about the culture of community in Rwanda, because you've been in the U.S. for seminary and multiple trips to visit sponsor families here. You spent some significant time in the U.S. and you know our weaknesses. Let's talk about the strengths of Rwandan community.
“First of all, I want to say people need people. We have a need for each other. When you read the Bible, it is full of verses that talk about each other, encourage each other, support each other, need for each other. We were made for each other and we were made for human connection. People still need each other in Rwanda, possibly because they don't have a lot of material things and therefore you have to depend on another to fill in the gaps for you. As a result, naturally we have a communal life because we are dependent on each other.”
I don't want anyone to miss what he just said. They need each other and so they depend on each other. I think that is one of our biggest barriers in the U.S. Everybody's separated because they don't need each other anymore. We can literally order anything we need off of Amazon. There's not a sense of need. Do you have any hope for us?
“For me, community is everyday life and we do all the things without even thinking through them. The thing for us is that I need my neighbors, I need my community, I need my relationships. I have so many gaps and needs in my life that we need each other. It's really part of a culture and lifestyle. I didn’t even recognize it till I came to America. Everyone drives in his own car. He has his own money. He has his own job. He has his own life and neighbors don't talk to each other and they don't know each other. That to me, when I first came to America was a little bit strange. The worst part for me was seminary class. You get out of class and everyone goes his way. You don't even know each other in the classroom! That's unusual, but maybe that is the American culture. Rwandan culture is the community culture. We have to do life together. We know that helps with people not being lonely and you talk about the joy in Rwanda. The joy is not about material things. The joy is about people meeting together, spending time together, singing together, eating together, going to weddings together. Some of our weddings are three days. You have three different events to get married and people spend a lot of time together. I had reduced a number of services at our church, and little did I know that people really want to meet. So now we have a service on Thursday, we have a service on Friday night, and we have three services on Sunday. People come around the church and they want to hang around each other. But you know, they don't have televisions in their houses. They don't have movie theaters. Human beings entertain human beings. I think that is beautiful, and that's where people spend their time.”
Independence has been an American value since the beginning. Not just independence from controlling governments, but also independence from needing anybody else. And I think that's part of the privilege and the plenty we've been given in America. I don't want to wish that away. However, I don't think it's brought happiness. I don't think it leads to joy.
You are right. I don't think it ends up bringing joy to us. I think I see many people in America who struggle. They may have money, they may have a car, they may have a house, but they are struggling because they're not connected to other people. I just don't understand why we don't make it happen! If you want connection, reach out to somebody. Now, some people are gonna say no, but I really think there are people out there who are looking to connect with other people and they are just afraid that they will not be accepted. So as you reach out you're going to find out people are going to accept you, and you’ll accept people into your own life. Someone is out there waiting. I think it is like a dating relationship. For nine months, I kept you looking at my wife on campus, and I didn't take her out for a date. I finally reached out to her and I got out of my comfort zone. I was a shy boy. When I reached out to her and when I reached out to her, I got a response. Life ever since is not the same. So I really think there are people out there waiting who want someone to start out to and connect with them and talk to them and invite them into their lives. Bring down the walls we've been building. I think these walls can be broken. They are walls of insecurity and these walls of insecurity can be broken and when you break them, you bring in other people. As you bring in more people, gradually you create the culture.”
Do you think some of those same issues exist in community in Rwanda or is it totally different?
“You know, some of those issues actually are beginning to exist among the elite community. People who are educated, who have money, and are busy, which again I think leads us to independence because we can depend on ourselves. I think it is a continuous temptation for all of us. It's like the more you get, the more you actually cushion yourself off from others because you don't need them. You can provide everything you need to yourself. I remember when I was growing up, mom would get salt from our neighbor and our neighbor would get salt from us. Our neighbors would get vegetables from us we would get vegetables from them. Now in the city, for some people, life is beginning to change. They don't need to get your vegetables or salt. They have everything they need. But when you live in community, people show up uninvited. They get in your private life. They’ll show up at your wedding without an invitation.”
I mean, I want you all not to miss this, that people show up uninvited. That is something I say all the time. I have friends that do this at our house and it is love to me. We have to have this relationship with people. To give them permission to be that friend to us. I think it's just so different here that people don't have reasons to show up at each other's doors. And so we don't. I think the way it changes is we get more intentional. We get so hungry for it that we turn off our TV and like my friend Ellen and Paul last night, they dropped off their kids somewhere. There were in the neighborhood and told us they were going to stop by. They brought cheese and we had wine and we hung out for two and a half hours. This is what we've got to do. We’ve got to just show up for each other.
“People give life to people by closeness, by being there for each other. That's the life we need. That closeness and those relationships gives us life and actually brings joy because when you get life, you get joy.”
I think our fear is that it's going to take life. I noticed this in myself. When I start to get isolated or pull back, it's because I think that's going to cost emotional energy. When we think of the hesitations of not moving into people's lives, we think it's going to cost us something. But the truth is it gives us so much. And you live this way because you start ministries as if it’s a small project, but then it reaches across your whole country. It’s because you work and believe that you're working from a place of abundance. You believe that God will give you what you need. That's why you charge ahead without fear and you start ministries and you speak into people's lives. Even though your church is very large and has multiple sites. You start so many things because you really believe you're working with God and he's going to give you that abundance and that life that you need to minister to other people. But it seems to not run out.
I think one of the greatest things God has given African New Life ministries is people. It's our team. It’s our team here in the U.S. It’s our team in Rwanda. I remember when it was not African New Life ministries. It was just me and Florence. We started praying that God would bring people to come, and God provided us with amazing people, gifted people, able people, people who are incredibly committed to Africa New Life ministry and the cause of Christ. People who share the vision, who get the vision, and live the vision. They live out their life in the community to transform lives by preaching the good news of our Lord Jesus Christ and acting compassionately. They're amazing. It's an amazing team from our directors to our managers, to elders, to child sponsorship workers. By the way, we have a great board too. God has provided in unusual ways, and I also think that these resources come because God has provided people well.
I wanted to say that, because I think we can limit God when we don't work out of abundance and when we work out of scarcity. When we don’t move toward the risks that God wants us to make, which obviously you are compelled to make because of a broken country. Your country was broken and in despair when God called you to be a part of reconciling it. So it was a clear calling, but yet you stepped out with fear, I'm sure, and in faith that he would provide. So much of the community and the connection we're longing for comes alongside of us as we obey God, as we step into his callings, as we aren't afraid to move into the darkness and the brokenness.
“You're provoking me to think through all the things that have happened. I remember someone told me it seems that God builds the bridge as I walk on it. The way I see it is that God is out there, God loves his people, He wants his people provided for, He wants his people healed, He wants his people set free from slavery, He wants his people set free from their bondage. For me, it actually comes from a mission and that's the mission of Christ. When you read Christ’s manifesto, he says, I’m anointed. I'm anointed to set the captives free. I'm anointed to get the prisoners free.. I'm anointed to open the eyes of the blind. It’s Christ and his mission. His mission is about bringing freedom to people. God calls us to go out and set them free. So to me, it's not even about resources. It's really about freedom. We need to go and lead in freedom through prayer, preaching the gospel, loving people, and by mobilizing other people to come with us. Every year nearly 500 missionaries come from the U.S. to come and work in Rwanda on short term trips. It's all about bringing freedom, bringing transformation, bringing Christ to people, getting more people to find God. This ministry has continued to grow, but it’s not about the size. I don’t see the size. I see people who need God. On every new site, every new expansion, every new community, it’s about more people coming to God. As a result, God gets more glory and more praises. I'm always looking for one more pastor, one more child, one more community.”
It's the joy of following God because you stay busy. You stay focused, you’re on mission with your people, and there’s something about that. I really believe in people obeying that still quiet voice where God tell us to move toward a need or take the text step. If you’re running your race, you need to fix your eyes on Jesus. And if you're running the race, you need to fix your eyes on Jesus and your sin starts to fall off. I really think something about mission causes all the things we want in life to happen and it really is community. I mean community is what we're all longing for in connection. But that comes when we have a shared mission. It comes when we actually are together working toward a cause. I think I feel that way with you, Pastor Charles. I feel like every time we see you, you are my brother. There are things about our lives that are forever different because we know you. We would not have adopted from Rwanda without you. My husband calls me from Rwanda when he's on a trip with you in the orphanages, and said we’re adopting. You have transformed our lives forever and I'm just so grateful for you and how your life and your sisterhood and brotherhood from you and Florence have shaped our lives. And so thank you so much for being here and bringing this message to people because it's life changing.
