FUN! with Annie F. Downs
Today we are talking about something we all want to talk about! Because life is heavy and hard and it’s why everyone loves Annie F. Downs...we are going to talk about fun!
Annie, you have taught me so much about this. We are both enneagram 7’s, and on any given day I really believe I am. Until I’m with you. I don’t value fun like Annie values fun. You make me better. I’m always drawn to other 7s because they make me have even more fun. I do want to say, the book is coming out, and it’s called That Sounds Fun. All of you need to go get it! I think this is so timely. There could be a sense of like, why are we talking about fun when the world is falling apart? But you know what? Life is not worth living unless there is a life worth protecting and that means something, and having fun is a part of that! So let’s start with you talking a little bit about why you love this topic so much.
Honestly Jennie, that’s one of the reasons this book is right for me right now. People keep asking if this is the right time to talk about fun and I’m like YES! Because if we don’t plug it in right now, we will lose ourselves. What fun actually is is just making space for something. Just making room. When I was thinking about my own life and how life has felt more stressful in the last year and a half than its been in a long time, things have felt out of control, and I have found myself listing what I can control. One of them is prioritizing having some fun every now and then. It is pretty natural for me. I kind of thought that everyone thought about fun as much as I do Jennie, and I realized they didn’t. The reason that’s important is because we talk a lot about the body of Christ and how the body has a lot of parts and we need a lot of moving parts in our worlds. It used to make me feel immature, but now I realize that God made me this way and the world needs some of us to remind the rest of us that there is something good in a really hard day.
WHY DO WE NEED FUN?
I don’t even have to ask this - you’ve watched The Crown right? I remember when Madeline Albright was out at the beautiful ranch of the royals and she kept working. Princess Margaret came in and said, hey, what you sometimes get from resting and having fun is perspective. She said it way more sassy than that, but I loved that moment. It’s what you’re going to do for all of us with this book. It’s this perspective that comes when you laugh a little and lift up. When we were going through this season that was so difficult for my friend Sarah that had the stroke, we would laugh and it would feel wrong. It would feel almost shallow because she was sitting in rehab and learning how to talk and walk again. Yet that’s what she wanted to do! She wanted to laugh. I do think there’s got to be that layer in all of this or we’re all going to lose our minds. We’re not going to have perspective. You actually did a lot of research with this about why fun matters. I want to talk about that. What did you learn about why this matters so much and why it’s important?
Well you’ve seen all the research around sleep - that resting isn’t just important, actual sleep is important. What sleep does is it actually lets your brain reset at night. It releases things and it allows you to start the next day. That’s why when we do lock-ins as middle schoolers, we feel like a looney tune for days! What’s true about fun is there’s a lot of that same science to fun. We need that release, we need that space, and we need to know that there is more than the stress of our lives. You know when you were like in 3rd grade and you would get home from school and think about nothing? You would read a book or play outside and think about nothing? We don’t ever get to think about nothing. We’ve lost that. There’s this quote that I found that just kind of rocked my whole understanding of this. It’s from J.R.R. Tolken and he says, “certainly there was Eden on this very unhappy earth. We all long for it and we are constantly glimpsing it.” That’s the thing Jennie. We are all longing for Eden. We’re longing for simplicity. The closest thing we find that is in fun. The furthest reaches of that is addiction and escapism and making choices to run from your life. The healthiest and nearest version is having a good time with people that you love or doing a hobby you really enjoy or having a hard conversation that can actually be fun when you’re allowing each other to be learners. All the research points back to that there is something about making space and having hobbies that reminds you of who you really are. It makes you healthier.
IS THERE FUN IN THE BIBLE?
You’re right. I think we’ve almost demonized this a little bit. This is a good thing! This is not escapism or denying reality. This is something God put in us. You and I both, we’ve had this conversation, I don’t know how many times, about the Bible and fun. We are both Bible teachers and we love the Bible and we’re like, wait, there has to be more examples of people in the Bible having fun. So I would love for you to share what you’ve told me as far as the way the Bible was written and all that. But do you see a vision for fun in the scriptures?
Yes! You’re exactly right. There are moments of fun. But one of the things you and I have talked about is I don’t think an enneagram 7 wrote any of the books of the Bible. The moments you and I would have called out - the same as when we’re all at IF together and we all have the same experience listening to you teach, but different parts stand out to us. We’ll all quote you online but it’ll be a different quote. That is exactly how so many of the Bible stories are. It’s one of the best parts of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John! We get to see the same stories from different points of view. People ask me a lot where the fun is in the Bible, and genuinely my first answer is Jesus. It’s not because I’m being churchy! It’s because he keeps getting invited to dinners and parties and weddings! Kids love him! All that tells me that he was great to be around! He had people following him everywhere. You don’t follow somebody who’s in a bad mood constantly, even if they had great words. People followed him because he was charismatic, because they thought he was funny and fun and kind. I love that part in the story in John where Jesus turns water into wine. Jesus and all his friends were invited to the wedding. He was friends with that bride and groom and they thought we’ve got to have Jesus and his boys there. I just love that!
And that he turned water to wine! That was his first miracle. Way to come out! This is a party. It was an unnecessary miracle that he absolutely thought was important enough to pull out his abilities in that moment.
The other thing I love about that story is Jesus never gets any credit for turning the water into wine. Immediately, the father in law goes and congratulates the bridegroom on saving the best wine for last. Jesus never steps in again! I love that Jesus is like this is going to be a great party and I’m just going to sit back here and let the new son in law get all the credit. I just love that.
Even the way he interacted with the Pharisees and people. He could’ve said anything and put everyone in their place - he was God on earth - yet he was not afraid to deal with issues in the room that are kind of like, “oh I can’t believe he just said that.”
He’s just the best of all of our personalities. But I just love the hints of how fun he is. I think when we’re with him or when we’re sitting with John in heaven and asking, “but when was he funny?” Or maybe Thomas was the one that thought everything was funny because he also was the one who had a lot of questions which kind of fits my personality too. When we get to Heaven Thomas could be like, “okay y’all but there’s this one story, I didn’t get to write anything down, but there was this one time..” Even John said if we wrote down everything Jesus did, the books of the world wouldn’t hold it. There are so many stories of him being fun that weren’t recorded that we’re going to get to hear.
HOW CAN YOU START HAVING FUN TODAY?
Okay let’s talk about what this looks like in our lives. There are people listening to this right now and they are bugged. They’re thinking oh that’s great for you two you think in fun moments and you build them and laugh a lot and that’s great. Maybe you’re not that personality and that’s great. Some of you don’t have a clue what to do. What would you say to them about putting this into their life?
For starters, you can not imagine how many people say to me, “I’m not that fun. I’m just not the fun mom.” I bet you are far more fun than you realize. People enjoy you more than you realize. To me, I know this sounds wild, but one of the first stops in this whole thing is a conversation with the Lord. Like listen, my life feels full and stressful all the time OR it feels like I’m planning fun but not participating. So God would you just open my eyes and my calendar and make space? What we continually see is what we make space for is what we do, and what we do changes who we are. If you will make space for fun, and I tell people all the time to put a 30 minute block on your calendar that just says fun. When that 30 minute block comes you might go, “oh gosh, what am I supposed to do? I don’t know what to do for fun!” It could be going on a walk. It could be reading a book you’ve been wanting to read. It could be working on a cross stitch. It could be picking up an old hobby you haven’t done in forever. A couple weeks ago I was talking with this guy and he said, “I just don’t have any hobbies. I don’t do anything for fun.” And I said, “tell me what you did when you got home from school and had the whole afternoon?” He goes through a list of what he did and then he said, “this is going to sound really ridiculous.” Because so much of the bigger story here about having fun is, can you love who you are? Can you love the unique way you were made and the unique things that you think are fun? You hear it on my show all the time! The last question I always ask is, “what sounds fun to you?” 9/10 times people go, “I don’t know if this is fun, but…” It always is! If it’s fun to you, it’s fun! This guy says, “on Saturdays I used to get all of our neighbors together and we would be a choir and I would lead the choir.” I was like that is so sweet! What are you doing about that now? Like are you doing that now? He goes, “no. I don’t do any of that.” I’m like I’m sure there are voluntary community choruses you can be in during non-covid times! There’s all sorts of things like that that we hold in our hearts that remind us of our childhood. It could be cooking things that your grandparents made. Just doing things that return us to a version of simplicity. We can not go back to Eden. That’s part of the loss here: the thing we’re looking for we can’t actually get to. The thing we get to do is ask ourselves, “can I journey through this life having fun and loving who God made me to be and stepping back toward that simplicity?” It says that God has set eternity in our hearts and we can find little things that make us feel that. It’s trial and error! You don’t have to pick up a brand new hobby and keep it forever, but if you can do one thing everyday that’s a little bit fun, so much more of your life will change.
What I love that you’re saying and what you did in this book is give permission. Give permission to prioritize something that is good and something that I think does bring perspective and bring a richer, fuller experience of life to us. I think about this topic and I’m like okay, this is something Christians don’t talk about. Why do you think we don’t talk about it? It’s novel for a Christian to be talking about this in the way you do.
I think it’s novel because we think it’s childish. We think if we’re actually a grown-up Christian, then we don’t prioritize this anymore. You’re either playing games as a kid with your siblings or your next level of conversations about fun were in high school when you were trying to decide whether you were going to disobey your parents, but your friends thought it was fun. It has become a moral decision when it’s really not. What that is doing - when you’re in middle school, high school, college and you're rebelling and going through those different experiences, that’s escapism and trying to be accepted. There’s much simpler fun here. I think that’s part of the problem! We think it’s childish and then we think it’s a-moral or anti-Christ. The reality is that fun is so fun! It is such a release and a gift in our lives. That’s why in the book we talk about being an amatuer. You don’t have to be a professional at everything. It’s important to let yourself fall in love with the things you love. Give yourself permission! I started cross-stitching again at Christmas because I realized I was watching tv and scrolling on my phone - like what am I doing? I haven’t cross-stitched since I was 10 with my grandmother, but I made a Christmas ornament for all of my cousins that reminded us all of my grandmother! It was so sweet and so fun. It didn’t cost me very much either! The other thing is when I was in the fabric store picking out my colors for the cross-stitch I did after those ornaments, there was another girl in the same aisle picking up her cross-stitch things. If you could pick a person that was opposite of me in every way, it was this girl. We had nothing in common and you could tell just by looking at us. But what we did have in common is we both needed that yellow thread. The other thing fun does is it builds community with people who agree with us and don’t agree with us! She and I stood there and talked about it and I showed her my pattern and she showed me her pattern and I had this lightbulb moment of why this matters. It connects me with people who I don’t have any other connection with. We didn’t like exchange phone numbers or become best friends, but the power of fun to walk you into community, whether it’s book clubs or recipe swaps or playing outside or joining an intramural soccer league. Fun will bring you people if you’re looking for people.
I think about my son who’s 12 who is literally the epitome of this. He was sitting inside all day because of Covid when we were on lockdown and he was so edgy and sad and cranky and short. A few days ago he got his freedom back and he was out biking with all his friends and playing football and all of us noticed when he came back home that he was a different kid. He just is happy again! There’s something about getting to play outside with your friends that we should never grow up from! I want to go back to your childhood, because I do think that’s a great place to look. Looking back at what you used to love when you were a kid. What did you love when you were a kid? Besides cross-stitching, what did it look like for you in your childhood?
What’s really funny is one of the things I remember very clearly as a kid is I grew up on 18 acres on a little farm, and I would ride my bike everywhere. As many corners as I could on that farm. I would interview myself as an elementary school kid.
Of course you did. Don’t you wish you had those recorded?
I do but thank God they’re not. That’s the other thing about tapping into what you loved as a kid. It directs you in a thousand ways. Like I’ve always loved being a part of a conversation! I loved cooking with my grandmothers - I thought that was so fun. I also read a ton of books - we weren’t allowed to watch tv at my house on the weekdays. Except when dad got home from work, if he wanted to watch the Andy Griffith show, we could sit in there with him. But other than that, no tv during the week. I read a ton of books and we played games and my siblings and I played a lot. When I think back on my childhood, it was not perfect. There was a lot that went sideways, there is pain I still deal with, and yet when I choose to think about fun, I can find little specks of it. And big chunks of it! And see the things that have always been fun to me and ask why I don’t do those things anymore! I played soccer my whole life growing up and then I quit for 20 years for no reason! So I’m playing soccer again. I don’t know why I quit some of the things I quit just because I grew up.
That’s significant. So you are playing soccer currently?
Yes. Well I was playing before Covid, had to stop part of Covid, but now I’m back playing.
I want you to tell people what that day looked like. Did you call a soccer league? You just flew past that. But for a lot of people that’s like revolutionary. What does that even look like?
This will be great to break it down. First thing I did is I bought a soccer ball because I did not own one anymore. So I bought a soccer ball and went out in my yard and kicked it into the house like I did when I was a kid. And I was like, yes, I still like this. That’s the level of investment to start - an $18 soccer ball and 45 minutes. I didn’t start by buying a set of jerseys for my friends. I started by simply stepping back in and asking, “do I still love this and does this still matter to me?” Then I asked myself why. Well a lot of it is I needed to get some aggression out. I needed a place for some release for how stressful my life feels. I can’t kick a lot of things like I can kick a soccer ball! The next thing I did is I have a friend who’s a soccer coach and a trainer, so I called him and said, “I think I want to start playing soccer again. Can I pay you to train me for a couple of sessions so I can just remember some of the things I don’t remember?” He taught me moves I have never done before! I just loved it. I told some of my friends as I started doing it, and there’s another couple that was like, “as soon as intramural soccer opens up, let’s get on a team!” Between now and then, we play together and play with the kids. I play with little kids all the time. We play soccer all the time and they compliment me on how much better I’m getting than I used to be.
That is so magical. I love that Annie!
But you’re right. It was not a hobby - it was something I tried. And once I tried it again, I thought oh yeah, I do still love this. This does still remind me of what I need.
I just think people get paralyzed. They don’t even know to think, “I used to do that as a kid” and how that would apply now. The fact that you bought a soccer ball, hired a coach, I mean that is magical. We’re about done, but I want you to talk to the person out there that is listening and their arms are folded and they’re thinking, “it’s just not for me.” They’ll turn this off and nothing will change.
For starters, no one can hit stop on this podcast and not have fun stuck in their head for a little bit. I would say let it stick as long as it’s sticking. Maybe it’s a conversation you have at dinner tonight. The one question you should ask tonight at dinner when y’all are all sitting around is: what do you do for fun? Just start listening to the answers. You can put it on Instagram or Twitter, but just ask people and see what they say. You’re going to get people who are really sure and their answers will be wild and cool, but you’ll also get people who say, “I don’t know what I do for fun, what do you do for fun?” But it will start a conversation. That’s the first thing I would say. The other thing is, people listening to your podcast and people listening to you and I, they care about their spiritual growth and they care about being healthy humans, or they wouldn’t be friends with us. Because that’s the stuff we talk about. Get Out of Your Head is a perfect example - one of the ways you get out of your head is you go and do other stuff. So one of the things you can do today is just put a 30 minute block on your calendar for this week, call it fun, and then ask some questions and actually get out of your head and go do something. If you played softball, grab a softball and throw it. If you painted as a kid, don’t spend $1,000 on lessons. Go to a local craft store and spend $12 and get a couple of those booklets that has paint attached to it. Just see how it makes you feel. Ask yourself questions as you’re going the whole way through - what am I feeling? Why is this making me cry? Why do I feel like I miss my grandparents? Why am I laughing and it’s just me? This journey toward fun is actually a really deep journey of self-reflection to figure out why you are who you are and how to be the healthiest version of yourself. Just start asking: what sounds fun to you.
